Bismarck Tribune - Bismarck News - Storm a difficult one to handle

Storm a difficult one to handle

Nov 12, 2008 - 04:05:25 CST

By LEANN ECKROTH
Bismarck Tribune

Frustration persisted early this week for motorists maneuvering the slippery grooves and mounds on Bismarck-Mandan roads. Many streets were rock solid and ridged with ice.

Many drivers said street clean-up should have started earlier.

"It's true that the wind here causes snow to blow over into the roads, but that doesn't mean you wait until the snow accumulates and the wind dies down to plow it," Michael Philleo said.

"I saw one driver literally trapped on an icy street because they couldn't move any further," he added. "They weren't stuck in a ditch but had actually slid against the curb and were unable to move. I pulled my truck over to help them and found out I had become stuck on the icy road as well." Philleo said he had to be pushed out by another vehicle.

City officials kept a wary eye on weather forecasts on Tuesday that called for a wintery mix of rain and snow. These could compound their clean-up challenges.

"We're hoping not to get a lot of rain. It will make it slippery again," said Jeff Heintz, director of public service operations for Bismarck. He said sanding would continue.

"We're cutting as much ice as we can," Heintz said. "They were talking about it getting into the 40s. With that, we could cut a lot of ice."

Heintz said some workers even volunteered to work the holiday to cut more ice.

He said most of the plowing was done, but crews need to do a lot of hauling along busy thoroughfares such as Main Avenue and Century Avenue.

Heintz said the blizzard posed unique challenges.

"We used snow gates the whole event, except for non-residential areas and areas without driveways," Heintz said.

"We started with the emergency routes and then went to the major arterials of the city."

In fact, plows had opened an emergency route and even groomed the trail for an ambulance en route to a snowbound victim, according to Heintz.

"We usually have a dry snow, but with this, the ground was not frozen. It was warm and the pavement was wet. The rain came. Once the snow started to fall on that, it absorbed the rain and that was slushy," Heintz said. "When the 9.1 inches of heavy, wet snow came, it insulated it."

Heintz said when the heavy, wet snow was removed, the slush was still beneath it, making it difficult for all motorists, including the recovery road trucks.

He added that slush froze making, hard, rough ice after the storm. Motorists found it difficult to get traction, including the the clean-up crews' equipment.

"We haven't seen a weather event like this for 11 or 12 years," Heintz said.

Heintz said the city is divided into seven plowing units. Each has a motor gate snowplow, a front end snowplow and a sanding unit.

"We started plowing around 12:01 a.m. on Friday.

"There are 300 miles of streets in Bismarck to cover," he said. "You cannot plow it at one time. With three passes of plowing, that makes it about 1,000 miles of streets to plow here," he said.

He said snow gates were used all over town, but the type of snow seen in last week's storm impacted their effectiveness. "The snow was wet and sticky and stuck onto the plow. ... With the gates down, and no place to put the snow, it was rolling out in front of it," Heintz said.

He added that the ice along the curb lines is not set up to drain off well when temperatures do rise.

Heintz said Friday's school closures helped the process because crews did not have to navigate through as much traffic or people dropping off children.

Heintz said there was little risk of depleting the city's 640 tons of sand-salt mixture unless there are many repeat weather events like it experienced last week. He said supplies also were left from last winter.

Both Bismarck and Mandan pulled certified large equipment operators from other departments. Bismarck ran double shifts of clean-up through Sunday night. "We're pulling them from the landfill, forests and water departments," Heintz said. "We got everybody we could."

"It's gone rather well. We're about 85 percent done as far as the first round went," said Henry Hurst, street superintendent for the city of Mandan.

"We're now hauling from the main arterials and emergency routes. With the ice layers, it's been hard to push around," Hurst said.

Todd Hamilton, meteorologist for the Bismarck office of the National Weather Service, said today posed the biggest threat of a rain and snow mix. He didn't think the total accumulation would be high. Sprinkles and flurries were forecast for Thursday. It was expected to be cold and windy Friday.

(Reach reporter LeAnn Eckroth at 250-8264 or leann.eckroth@bismarcktribune.com.)

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Comments

Joe Citizen wrote on Nov 12, 2008 3:43 PM:

" To "tricked tax payer" and "just me" not an insider just able to read the city ordinances like the one called 9-05-01 (2) which reads "regular full time employees who duties require them to work an regular shift on a holiday must be given an additional eight hours of vacation leave at the discretion of the department head". "

LDH wrote on Nov 12, 2008 3:32 PM:

" To all those complaining about the job done by the city plow workers: if you think you can do better, let's see it. It used to be there were only backseat drivers in the car and armchair quarterbacks in football. Now everyone thinks they know everything about everything and can do anything about everything. Well, PROVE IT. Quit your job and become a snow plow operator, a city commissioner, a police officer, or the president of the United States. Put your money with yours mouths are! "

Firestarter wrote on Nov 12, 2008 3:07 PM:

" Wow! Enough excuses from the people qouted in this article to fill an excuse bucket for the next 10 years. Its ND and they should be prepared for 24" of snow at any given time.

They also have not updated their plowing map since Dec 2006-2 years!!!

http://www.bismarck.org/uploads/doc_SnowEmergencyRoutes2008_DEC_REVISED.pdf

Last time I checked Bismarck has grown quite a bit since 2006! "

Bono wrote on Nov 12, 2008 2:52 PM:

" Do any of you remember we had 10 INCHES of snow and 40 mph winds? Have any of you ever done snow removal? It's pathetic that people complain no matter what. Sit in your cushy little houses and complain when the snow removal people are working non-stop for days at a time. Yes - DAYS. Try it once. "

Bladerunner wrote on Nov 12, 2008 2:50 PM:

" I work for a local private contractor and run the same eqiupment the City does, a Cat 140 motor grader. I was called in Thursady night around 8:30. The conditions where bad for me operating. My road grader could get no traction. The snow itself moved in big sheats and stuck to my blade. "

move to Bismarck wrote on Nov 12, 2008 1:52 PM:

" I find it funny that the people from Mandan are complaining about the higher taxes and not getting any services. Why did you move there in the first place? Taxes are higher, almost everything you need you have to come to Bismarck for. I just don't see why anybody moves there. "

Dubbles wrote on Nov 12, 2008 1:28 PM:

" Wow, it seems as if none of guys are really North Dakotans. This is winter. Now I agree the roads were icy, ruts were every where. You cannot blame the plow drivers though, they all were out there working hard. The condition of the roads were caused by everyone driving on them and packing them down. Even if the plows were out when the first snowflake fell the roads would still be in the same condition as they cant be everywhere at once. I do not work for public works but you cant blame the snow storm on them. All of you complaining about your driveways, I came across this nifty contraption in my garage. Im going to call it a snow shovel. A little elbow grease and Im good to go. Good job city street workers, I myself am grateful for all the time you guys spent trying to make us ungrateful whiny citizens happy. "

Not buying the excuses wrote on Nov 12, 2008 1:26 PM:

" Okay. Even if I buy the reasoning that this was a bad storm, rain froze, then snow, etc., etc., it is November 12 and the storm ended November 7. Why was there no plowing Saturday, Sunday, and Monday to clear the ice ruts and other driving lanes that were still blocked after the one and only plow-by? And I have not seen the sand trucks sanding intersections that are solid ice. Seems like somebody made a decision not to plow and let the higher temperatures this week take care of it. Terrible decision. I suggest that we all contact our city commissioners. "

John wrote on Nov 12, 2008 1:25 PM:

" I agree the streets were the worse i have ever seen since moving here 12 years ago. I know it rained prior to the blizzard storm, but thats still no excuse for the huge ice chunks in the streets on the emergency routes. I took the time to not only call but also email public works to make them aware that this doesn't happen again. As a taxpayer i feel i have the right to have my complaint heard. I received an email back within mins. their response was that the person responsible in relating complaints would be out of the office from Nov.10-14 th and that I should call public works or relate my email to another individual if i found it to be an emergency. Today as the warm temp rises, I finally received another email with a response that the streets were being taken care of. Seriously, I agree with many of you taxpayers out there in the cities of Bismarck/Mandan that I think this storm clean up was put on hold so that our city public works employees could go out and get their buck/doe first, then the streets became their second priority. "

JustMe wrote on Nov 12, 2008 1:00 PM:

" Well Joe, Not to burst your bubble, but it was an orange truck from the city not blending into the white background. I have lived in Bismarck for over 20 years, I know what a snow plow looks like haha. Does the city have tracking information on all the rigs? Guessing not. I saw it, and I'm telling you, no lies here.

Not sure where you are getting all these assumptions of me from two posts, I will admit they have important jobs and not sure where you are coming up with minimum wage and what-have-you, my point was the article states workers volunteered to work the holiday, if they wanted to stay home they could have. Can you honestly tell me people don't milk holidays for benifts? I'm pretty sure they weren't working yesterday so they could create access to the mall for ya, it was just ice. Is there a reason you are overly defensive of the city workers over this? hmmm "

I want an oil well wrote on Nov 12, 2008 12:40 PM:

" I have a solution to several problems. We should all have a skidsteer in every garage paid for by state budget surplus money. A local skidsteer company would get rid of inventory and wouldn't have any layoffs, the snow in our driveways could be cleared, we could still get our mail, and that pesky surplus money would be gone. Other than the junkmail, sounds like this is a deal ND should consider.
Ok, I have to be reasonable... how about one per block.
All the skidsteers running would use fuel causing fuel prices to go up, the drilling in the state will continue and the state can still recieve big tax money from the oil companies. We can get out of our driveways and go to work to earn money to spend on shopping, our economy will boom and then... Oh never mind, we would be back to a government surplus again... some ideas just kind of bomb. "

Bismarcker wrote on Nov 12, 2008 12:23 PM:

" It was a bad situation all the way around and maybe it was the "perfect storm" in the sense that alot of things came together to give us the roads we have today. I too have to wonder about the timing of the storm and the pre-approved deer hunting vacations that surely some city employees were taking. Obviously the storm had been forecast for days in advance and any deer hunting vacations should have immediately been put on hold (on Thursday when the storm hit). I don't know if the city needs more equipment or operators or what? "

TERRIBLE ROADS IN BISMARCK wrote on Nov 12, 2008 12:23 PM:

" This is the worst plowing job I have ever seen in Bismarck. There is no excuse for the ice ruts. Sand? What sand. I've seen none of it. . . "

Ticked Tax Payer to Joe Citizen wrote on Nov 12, 2008 12:11 PM:

" You sound like an insider on this, please share with the people who doesn't allow the OT and instead gives credit on hours - wouldn't it be fair to say the initials are B.S.??? Alot of people know about this, I can't believe something hasn't been done! "

Independent wrote on Nov 12, 2008 12:06 PM:

" The city came down our street on Friday afternoon and left the pile 2 feet from the curb on our side of the street but up to the curb on the other side. Had to also dig out our community mailbox for our 9 homes.

We have a vehicle on our street that has not been moved in months and still has not been moved since the plow went around it. Called the Bismarck PD and they informed me that you have to move it within 48 hours unless posted to move sooner. It should be ticketed, but I highly doubt that it will be. "

Joe Citizen wrote on Nov 12, 2008 11:49 AM:

" To Just Me, you know you may be right the snow plow operator may have ventured out to get his own property after all those big yellow pieces of equipment blend right into the scenery don't they? How about this, why don't you call the City and see if it's true. Now if it is, then your suspsions were correct if not, then come back and apoligize for your baseless accusation. And I am in total agreement, about paying overtime, I for one am sure that they should be working for minimum wage just for the satisfaction of serving such wonderful citizens as yourself. After all I'm sure that they don't mind leaving their family to assure you can get to the mall. If you would have checked it out a city employee that gets the joy and privlage of working a holiday does not get OT they get vacation time credited hour for hour no OT, so sorry to burst your bubble. "

live on the north side wrote on Nov 12, 2008 11:31 AM:

" We live on the north side of town in a newer development. While we are a younger couple most of the other home owners in our area are older. It was pathetic watching those people try to clean our their drives, so my family helped as many as we could, sadly our street did not get plowed until mid afternoon on Saturday, and NO the plows did NOT have their snow gates down. Every drive that we had previously cleaned out was once again plugged with snow, ice and slush. There are no cars parked on the street that I live on, everyone parks in their garages and still they did a horrible job cleaning the street, its all rutted up, they totally missed long swipes of snow down the middle and sides of the street. For them to say they used the snow gates is a lie (unless they used them in front of their own houses.) I worry about the elderly who live on our street. It would have been very difficult for an ambulance to reach them until after 5:00 on Saturday when my family was done blowing/shoveling everyone out. "

Caterpillar wrote on Nov 12, 2008 11:31 AM:

" There is this company called Caterpillar they build big powerful yellow equipment that can be ussed for snow removal. Just a thought, maybe the city could get some and hire qualified people to operate them. "

JustMe wrote on Nov 12, 2008 11:25 AM:

" Saw a city plow out in Apple Meadows on Friday afternoon, poor access out there and was all by himself out there... Plowing his own driveway out maybe???

I wonder why they were all willing to work the holiday for the well-being of the city... overtime vultures anyone?? "

Disappointed wrote on Nov 12, 2008 11:13 AM:

" I have lived in Bismarck since 1972 , I have never seen the streets like this .
Which city commissioner holds this portfolio, he should be taked to the wood shed also.

To state the plows were out at 12:01 am on Friday, I would sure like to know where they were, our office as open on Friday and I drove a lot of snow emergency routes between 7:30 and 8 am , none plowed, no plows in site

Thursday afternoon no sand trucks on glare ice roads, but I did see a street sweeper on Rosser at 1:30 .

Sat , Expressway was 2 lane traffic between the pen and Walmart , who is running this show anyway

To say I am disappointed is an understatement , I am mad "

Hog Man wrote on Nov 12, 2008 11:08 AM:

" I figured it would just be a matter of time before someone defended the sand option by pointing out how it can be bad for cars and cause corrosion. I pose one simple question to those who are against the use of salt: Would you rather have to do business with Red Carpet Car Wash, OR Duane's Body Shop, St. Alexius Medical Center Emergency Room and your insurance agent? That's a no-brainer to me... "

BB wrote on Nov 12, 2008 10:59 AM:

" Thursday was bad enough when the storm hit, getting my kids from school was very hard and scary numerous accidents in front of Mandan High School and getting up 6th ave hill was not going to happen when you have a bus stuck on it because it was to slippery and now today i take my son to his elementary school and they have not even cleared the sidewalks what do us taxpayers pay for certainly not making sure are kids can get to school without slipping and falling very sad!!!! "

Chet wrote on Nov 12, 2008 10:32 AM:

" I thought it was coincidental that the storm hit on opening deer season...and the cleanup was slower than ever. I'm guessing city workers were out shooting Bambi over the weekend. I expect as soon as their get their deer, the roads will start shaping up. "

Ticked Tax Payer wrote on Nov 12, 2008 10:24 AM:

" First to "Frustrated", not everyones workplace was closed, therefore some of us had to go to work! Now, onto the absolute worst streets I've ever encountered and still am encountering, I do not place blame with the City Employees, I think every citizen should be on the horn to Mr. Bob Stenjhem letting him know how they feel!!!! As I waited in line through 10 lights on Thursday after picking up my kids, I noticed the State was nice enough to sand on Exit 161 even though this is no longer their responsibility so people could get some traction, otherwise we may still be sitting there! "

whatever wrote on Nov 12, 2008 10:02 AM:

" I was driving on Century Avenue on Saturday afternoon and going west it was only 1 lane. Considering it is a snow emergency route - I thought that was a bit pathetic. Expressway was just as bad. "

M wrote on Nov 12, 2008 9:57 AM:

" is there any rules saying a street can't be plowed more than once? it isn't just this storm, this is the rule of thumb for some reason with this city. We have had winter after winter with minimal snow and definitely few major storms, yet the city continues to wait before plowing or after they start, forget to hit some of the main roads again. i'm sure it is a big task after a storm like this, but why are the plows driving with blades up? seems like a waste to me. the only good thing i see is that south washington is now smoother than after the poor patchwork they did earlier this year. i no longer break my teeth driving over it, i mean sliding over it. "

MR wrote on Nov 12, 2008 9:56 AM:

" I am also a Mandan Resident and I am still wondering what we get that Bismarck doesn't for the higher taxes. We are a young family and cannot afford a snowblower. My husband and I were late for work on Friday because the plows put a 4.5 foot high wet snow pile along the end of our driveway. Why do we pay higher taxes and can't get the same type of services Bismarck does? Not only do they have snow gates, but they have other things like curbside pickup of grass. It is pretty sad that as a Mandan resident you think to yourself when you wake up 'I hope they didn't plow our street yet so I can still get out of my driveway'. "

Fork and Spoon wrote on Nov 12, 2008 9:43 AM:

" Mandan plowed? I didnt think they did anything. Oh wait, they did plow my alley which is the safest place to drive because the street running in front of our house is still one lane. "

Ryan wrote on Nov 12, 2008 9:28 AM:

" Emergency routes clear? I don't think so! I was on Century Ave. west yesterday and I about got into an accident becuase Century Ave bottle necked into one lane right at the light to turn into Best Buy. (the other lane still has 6 foot of snow on it!!!) This is ridiculous!!! How frustrating to see the article above and see that it is a lie................ "

Another Mandan resident wrote on Nov 12, 2008 9:21 AM:

" I am sympathetic to the city workers when we get hit like we did in this storm. We have to be patient and try NOT to complain so much because this stuff was awful. But with that said - I agree that I wish that Mandan could do something about piling my driveway completely SHUT when I just got it all cleaned out. You cannot snowblow that stuff! It also is my responsibility to clear away my mailbox so that I can get my mail - there again - the snowplow to the rescue. Let's hope we don't get too many more of these kinds of storms. But - can we get snow gates in Mandan?? It makes SENSE! "

NDMom wrote on Nov 12, 2008 9:04 AM:

" According to my neighbor no gates were used when the plow arrived. The plow also laid a 6 foot pile of snow on top of my neighbors mailbox. WHich of course has to be taken care of or you get no mail. So much snow 2-5 feet were left in driveways so that folks blew the snow the plow left in their driveways into the streets. THis resulted in piles of snow in the street too high for my car to get through. My guess is anyone who knew how to drive a plow for this blizzard was out deer hunting. Quite frankly I find it all irresponsible. And if the city is following these blogs my development is the Point. "

Give em a Break wrote on Nov 12, 2008 9:03 AM:

" Hey, give these guys a break. The weather was crappy, the wind was blowing snow all over and they did the best they could. If they plow it out when it is snowing/blowing, they will just have to do it again in a few hours. Do you honestly think the cities (Bis & Man) WANT the streets to be impassible? Sand does make things dirty, but salt causes corrosion on our vehicles, gets into the water, and has no traction value. One would think you people have never lived in North Dakota for cryin' out loud! One sure way for our property taxes to continue to rise is for the city/county to buy more equipment to appease the cry-babies out there to get the streets plowed sooner. Buy a 4-wheel drive or a snowblower and get over it. I for one applaud the city/county workers for getting the job done and give them a "THANK YOU". "

Me wrote on Nov 12, 2008 8:56 AM:

" I can't believe the conditions that we have to drive in. They have done a terrible job and we only got 9 inches! Some areas on Century Ave. still only have 1 lane open. When I was driving to work on Friday morning I took 4th Street off of Rosser since I thought that was a snow emergency route. Bad idea! It hadn't even been touched at 7:30 in the morning. It was unplowed all the way up to Century Ave. I agree about selling the dirt and replacing it with pure salt. The dirt does NOTHING except for make the city look filthy. I just don't get it. "

Thank You wrote on Nov 12, 2008 8:50 AM:

" This was a tough one for the city to handle. Thank you for the untimely, inefficient, and mediocre attempt at snow removal. The city needs to get rid of the sand, try pure salt or CALCIUM CHLORIDE. There are liquid snow and ice melting agents available. The majority of the streets will be ice covered and rough for the remainder of the winter due to the poor job the city has done at attempting to clear the streets. "

frustrated with the blizzard coverage wrote on Nov 12, 2008 8:49 AM:

" How about the local news coverage on Friday morning? One news channel was actually reporting about cancellations, road conditions and such and all the other news channel could talk about was the wonderful snowman they were building!! Maybe the next blizzard they could actually report on something a little more useful???? It caused me to switch my morning news channel. "

Mandan resident wrote on Nov 12, 2008 8:23 AM:

" I wish I could say Mandan did a great job. Main street which I would think is an important road was not plowed until Friday night. Why was that not one of the first streets to be taken care of. That is the main artery into Mandan. The crews should have been working on the busy streets again yesterday trying to get some of the slush off the roads so we don't have to worry about popping a tire. Like usual Mandan doesn't believe in using the plows until the snow is so packed down. Then they come around to the neighborhoods and block all the driveways. We had chunks of ice that we had to carry out of the driveway because they were too big for the snowblower. Wake up public works. With one of the highest taxes in the state you would think you could do better. "

JustMe wrote on Nov 12, 2008 8:19 AM:

" Still waiting on our street for them getting all the snow off. Over 5 feet in front of a house in the street, still one lane passing. Tell them to finish plowing N 32nd ST!!!! "

Hog Man wrote on Nov 12, 2008 8:06 AM:

" Yes, it was indeed a tough one to handle. Warm ground, extreme slushy heavy stuff under the white snow, then cold temps to follow. Very tough to handle. The plow crews did a good job opening things up. The city, however, has been screwing up for DECADES. Sell that 640 ton pile of sand/salt mix crap and restock with about half as much pure salt, and we'd all be better off. Sand serves no function on this stuff except to make everything in town filthy, right into our living rooms. Salt melts ice. Sand makes it dirty and gritty. Enter the 20th century already! "

frustrated wrote on Nov 12, 2008 5:44 AM:

" Then can you tell me why the plows drove on 19th street ( north of the golf dome) 3 times with their blades up- people were getting stuck all day - and with the increased traffic the snow got packed harder. I also saw the apartment buildings clean out there parking areas onto the street creating more of a mess. Then the people from the buildings still kept their cars on the street which created another snow pile up. Schools were closed should be a sign for people to stay off the streets and stay home. "

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