Bismarck Tribune - Bismarck News - Mandan residents ask for noise ordinance

Mandan residents ask for noise ordinance

Jan 16, 2008 - 11:05:11 CST

By GORDON WEIXEL
Bismarck Tribune

Residents in southeast Mandan, unhappy with the city commission's approval of a liquor license for a new bar and grill earlier this year, are asking the city to institute a noise ordinance to keep things under control.

William Schott, representing residents in the River Place addition, requested the city commission at Tuesday's meeting to take action keeping the neighborhood surrounding the new business a quiet residential area.

Residents near the Bridgeview Addition, where the new bar and grill is being built, did provide a petition with about 150 signatures protesting the establishment when the issue came before the commission. But the property has appropriate zoning, light commercial, allowing the sale of alcohol.

"We didn't realize that was available," Schott told commissioners. "The city commission was supposed to notify the community of this and we assumed we would be, but we weren't and the alcohol license was granted. So be it. You're allowing a liquor establishment, a nightclub facility, in a residential area where there are a large number of children and families."

Schott made two requests on behalf of the residents living in the surrounding neighborhood. First, that the surround area have a no alcohol restriction place on it so no other similar businesses can come in. The second is to establish a noise ordinance allowing no more that 75 decibels along the river front area.

The Broken Oar bar and grill is within about 4,000 feet of the neighborhood, according to Schott, and late night outdoor music has been hard to put up with during the summer. The new bar and grill will be within 1,000 feet of the neighborhood and residents worry about even greater nuisance.

Commissioner Dan Ulmer asked what the noise levels were coming from the nearby Expressway. He explained that a similar protest was made when the amusement park was built and residents in the area were concerned the erupting volcano would be a concern. After some investigation it was found the traffic noise from Expressway was greater than the fake volcano.

Schott admitted most people were used to the traffic noise and the amusement park.

"You can get used to those things at 10 and 11 at night, but at midnight and 1 p.m. how can you get used to your windows rattling from hard acid rock?" Schott asked.

Schott proposed a noise ordinance similar to that used by Bismarck.

Ulmer suggested that if there were problems, the city could use its nuisance ordinance to control any problems. He noted there were a number of examples where the nuisance ordinance was used to end disruptive issues.

Commissioner Tim Helbling said he had a decibel meter at home and people would be surprised by what noise was made by lawn mowers, motorcycles boats and jet skis.

"The police department is already stretched. Who will enforce noise on all the water ways and throughout the city?" Helbling asked. "Perhaps we could put restrictions on a liquor license, that would be better than trying to handle a bunch of issues we can't afford or physically handle to enforce."

Mayor Ken LaMont said he liked Ulmer's suggestion of using the nuisance ordinance if necessary. He pointed out it was used in the case of the former Dogtown Bar and that establishment took care of the issue. LaMont added it was an issue that could be addressed after the new business opened.

The commission took no action on the requests.

(Reach reporter Gordon Weixel at 701-250-8255 or gordon.weixel@;bismarcktribune.com.)

News > Local

Printer friendly version Mandan residents ask for noise ordinance

Comments

MT Mandanite wrote on Feb 2, 2008 1:06 AM:

" It is very dissappointing to see that Mandan is not progressing. It is easy to point the finger at the city officials. Why when I look at the meeting notes, do they NOT indicate that the citizens of Mandan packed the meetings??? Could it be - they really do not care to bother themselves by attending to show the city they actually support and want growth? Or is it because they truly do not want to even start to understand what the Mayor, City Administrator, commissioners are up against?

It seems to me that the MANDAN CITIZENS NEED TO TAKE ACTION -- and ask the
tough questions of their officials.
Ellen Huber - you have had 2 years - how actively are you recruiting business to Mandan-- numbers, please?
How effective is the business development website?
Where are the so called "Big Shots" of Mandan investing their monies?
Where are they spending their profits?
Has anyone started an investment club or a city-wide foundation?
What recruitment has been done to draw in large industry?
Why can't Mandan be known as the "Entertainment Capital" by bringing in big names for concerts, etc. ?
When I look at the list of businesses currently in Mandan, a lot of them are in the service industry - what is wrong with that? Recruit more! Service industries can
work a base out of Mandan. Heck with the 5 year tax exemption the city commisioners are giving -- why wouldn't they move their businesses to Mandan
from Bismarck?
Mandan Citizens you are fault here -- get to the meetings -- start being pro-active
for your city -- your community has a lot going good. Put your money where your mouth is -- and if you don't have any money -- find someone who does -- and urge them to invest in the future of Mandan. Hell, you could be living in Montana!
By the way, thanks for Dave Ressler! He would have made you a GREAT MAYOR!

"

Bismarck Resident wrote on Jan 23, 2008 10:57 PM:

" And to Bono who says that those who say "get over it" are just jealous of those who can afford to live on the river, I say ha! I would never in a million years buy a place on the river, because you know what rivers do? They FLOOD. It's just too bad so many ordinarily pleasant people are getting so worked up over such a silly thing. Life is about more than fighting a bar and restaurant over a zoning permit. That's just the chance you take when you buy next to undeveloped land. "

Bismarck Resident wrote on Jan 23, 2008 10:47 PM:

" I live in downtown Bismarck near the bars and railroad trains, and in all honesty, it's not that bad. Sure the cars driving by at 1a.m. with their loud bass are a little bit bothersome, but it's not like it's all night. There's only a couple times a night on the weekends where it's even an issue. During the week the train is the worse thing. Eventually you learn to sleep through it. So let's not get worked up over such trivial things. Take into consideration all of that alcohol tax money funding your children's schools:) "

Re Mandan Dying: wrote on Jan 23, 2008 9:08 PM:

" Sure, anyone can have a plan, but some off-the-cuff one avenue idea just doesn't cut it. Plans need to be researched from law, ordinance and feasibility aspects. One answer may not work or fit into all the categories before action can be taken. My plan to cut taxes would be if everyone shopped in their own town, but no one listens. So... I carry on. I have said it before, if anyone has all the answers and can stop the dying little towns, by all means, get on the ballot, then see the underlying issues that are faced that no one wants to research or recognize. Decisions and actions cannot be taken from just the top layer of information, and I would guess government goes deeper than the average person can comprehend. I am sure our leaders would listen if they thought the idea could go someplace, but there may be a red flag right at the start, that would be my guess. "

Captain Crunch wrote on Jan 23, 2008 8:20 PM:

" Mandan isn't dying. It's already dead, it just doesn't know it yet. "

mandan wrote on Jan 23, 2008 12:52 PM:

" to RE Mandan Dying anyone can have a plan that would work but to get the commission to listen and act on it is a whole diffeent thing. They don't want to listen except for maybe Helbling but Lamont throws temper tantrums at meetings and has people removed if he doesn't want to listen. Until we get people voted in that really want to see Mandan grow and work we will continue to see Lamonts take on "revitalization" in other words we will see more buildings coming down and more parking lots than anything else.
To oil spill Not all the buildings needed to come down. The furniture store would have taken between 2-300,000 to refurbish but they paid 500,000 to tear it down! Yeah that made alot of sense! Our taxes are being spent like it is he commissions own personal piggy bank and nobody can tell them what they can or cannot do that is their attitude.
To Joe B. Mitzel as Mayor is the dumbest idea I have ever heard it is not like he doesn't have the run of Mandan as it is we sure do not need to put him in charge that would be a HUGE mistake!
"

geez wrote on Jan 23, 2008 12:47 PM:

" boo-hoo-hoo...cryin around again..why don't they get an ordinance like everyone else does just so ya'll can quit arguing and crying around about it..
"

Need wrote on Jan 22, 2008 10:35 PM:

" Yes, Mandan does need a noise ordinance for other reasons -- that being able to control your neighbor's pets that bark at all times of the day and night!!!! If the owners are not able to control their pets, there has to be a remedy for the neighbor,and don't tell the neighbor to move into the country -- the dogs belong there, not the working people! "

Dakota wrote on Jan 22, 2008 7:03 PM:

" old ed is not done. wait tell we pay (the taxpayers) pay for the paved street on 19th. He needs more land and needs the city of Mandan to help.
You can have the new the new delevopment in lakewood(water front) close to kist livestock,new bridge,highway, unreal specials, and a dock you cant use.Suggest you all have a good contract with a dredge company.
We complain about lack of water,yet build these stupid developments. Save the water...stop these supposely water front developments that are nothing but a waste of water and a big benifit to the developer. we have plenty of open ground to develop. Where are the studies on the water issues? "

An Effective Sign wrote on Jan 22, 2008 6:24 PM:

" Everytime I see an issue raised about a noise ordinance I have to laugh. It reminds me of my trip to New York City. In the Heart of NYC I saw AND HEARD Cars, people, construction, sirens, etc and in the middle of it all was a sign that I still have a picture of. . . "No Excessive Noise". There really shouldn't be a debate or a discussion. The second someone wants a noise ordinance just hurry up and pass it and throw up a sign - It works like a charm, just ask the New Yorkers! Ha Ha! "

Oil spill: wrote on Jan 22, 2008 6:15 PM:

" How soon we forget the devastating oil that penetrated the ground under several buildings for years, until someone faced the issue and took some steps. Old buildings are fine, if they can be usable and safe. Check the buildings around Dykshoorn park, attractive, themed and USABLE and SAFE. I would not have set foot in that old library, I don't care if they lined it with gold. It would have cost hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, to get it up to code and restore it, and even then there was no guarantee it would have been safe. Things get old, and things don't last forever, and sometimes we have to look ahead rather than behind. And now a new business wants to build in an appropriately zoned area and everyone is up in arms. There are neighborhoods very close to downtown where there are bars, and not real classy ones, either, and they have survived. I can imagine if Mandan would have refused this venture, oh, the mad people who would have been screaming we never let anything in. With the attitude this town has, we are lucky ANYBODY wants to take a chance, because we all know Mandan does not support it's city and will drive all the way to Bismarck to have a drink in a nice place. Old habits die hard, and those same habits are killing our city. I love the jabs at Mitzel, and I'm sure he laughs all the way to the bank. Your jealousy is showing. "

check it out wrote on Jan 22, 2008 4:37 PM:

" I for one checked out the surrounding land to see what it was zoned before I bought it. I would not mind to live close to shopping, bars, grocery stores etc. so then I would not have to drive and we could walk. Everything is so spread out and you have to drive everywhere. That of course will not happen in Mandan because they tear things down more then build them and deny interested parties who want to build. The noise you get used to it, it really isn't that bad. We all deal with certain noises' depending on your neighborhood. Be happy they are building instead of demolishing again. "

Bono wrote on Jan 22, 2008 4:26 PM:

" All of you who are for this new bar should live next to it and see how much you are in favor then. As long as it doesn't affect you - then it's just fine. "

Research please wrote on Jan 22, 2008 4:16 PM:

" If you posters did your reasearch the Mitzel family is not building this bar and did not grease any wheels as the people building this bar/restaurant are from out of town and will be moving to Mandan upon completion to run it. And it is not in a residential neighborhood yes there are houses near it but it is surrounded on three sides by commercial property. "

Dakota wrote on Jan 22, 2008 3:56 PM:

" I think "Let me whine too" has the best idea so far. Band the kids too. I don't have kids and the noise they make really annoys me also. "

Dakota wrote on Jan 22, 2008 3:53 PM:

" It's funny, people complaining about another bar. Wonder if these are the same people complaining about our high property taxes. Lets face it,bars do well in Mandan. Marv's Hardware, Jokers, Ragin Cajin and many more like them didn't do well because because lack of local support and lack of intrest. In business, A person should go with what they know. In my opinion it will be very difficult to change Mandan in my lifetime. As proven with the results from Ellen Huber (9 intrested business, 1 potential newcomer) believe me Ellen, it wasn't only due to stiff competition in Mandan. This businesses are looking for tax breaks and are not willing to give anything back, and know we run to Bismarck for the majority of our needs. (most of us work in Bismarck)
It would have been nice to get a for profit businees in the old K.C. club. We need paying taxpayers. "

For Mayor? wrote on Jan 22, 2008 2:40 PM:

" Mitzel. Mitzel. Why does that name sound familiar? Wasn't it a Mitzel who last summer was showing some pretty pricey homes and condos that were sale right across from where, oh oh, this noisy bar has since been built? The same guy who, oops, forgot to tell potential buyers that this bar was going to be built? Is this the same guy? Or is it a different family? Mandan can't be that big, can it? "

Let me whine, too. wrote on Jan 22, 2008 2:37 PM:

" I live in a small town outside of Bismarck. A few years my next-door neighbor sold his house to...a couple with two kids & the wife does daycare! Now I have all these little brats running and screaming right up to the property line. They make NOISE from sun-up to sundown during the spring, summer and fall. They drive my dogs crazy, they throw toys and stuff in my yard...LET'S BAN CHILDREN, TOO! Gee, I feel so much better now...

"

Bernard wrote on Jan 22, 2008 2:06 PM:

" Okay, here are some starting "Action Steps" for giving concrete, professional advice. First is to decide who we are as a town. What is Mandan? Are we really the Gateway to the West, or are we a decaying 'burb of Bismarck? Are we a real independent town? If so, then let's learn about who we are and take steps to identify, personify, and preserve our heritage. This means that we don't tear down our classicly historical downtown buildings and replace them with trashy white-washed plasterboard strip malls attractive only to pizza parlors, pawn shops, and open-today gone-tomorrow ventures. Next on the Action Now List is to not do something so stupid as to open noisy bars in the middle of residential neighborhoods. Nobody thinks that was a smart move, except for the rich self-centered local kid(s) who put in the upfront money and thought they were being smart. Aren't there enough places around town where we can drink, dance and (hopefully) be debaucherous? Do we really have to build bars next door to where our kids do homework, go to bed early, and, in the summer, camp out in their back yards, like we did when we were kids? Its no surprise that most people think a little grease was added to the machine that got the proper licenses and permissions to do this. Third, lets emphasize our home town and make it a place people want to live and shop in. I have no desire to do my shopping in a strip mall or a gas station. No one is going to want to live and shop here if it ain't a city worth living and shopping in. "

Re Mandan Dying: wrote on Jan 22, 2008 1:15 PM:

" And for those with all the answers to these problems, why are you keeping them to yourselves? Why aren't you on the commission and turning this whole thing around in 90 days? For goodness sakes, if you know just what to do to get the people to support their town, please tell us. Take the initiative and get some businesses here, don't wait for someone else. We, as a community, have to become supportive, both of our businesses and leaders, or we go nowhere. The answer lies in the attitude and actions of the entire population. "

Re Mandan Dying: wrote on Jan 22, 2008 1:12 PM:

" Yes, it is, but the fault lies in the population that wouldn't and won't shop here. People come up with all kinds of excuses to run to Bismarck for everything, but without customers businesses can't survive. We can't MAKE people open businesses here. If they look at the long line of stores and businesses that have disappeared in the last 30 years, I surely wouldn't take a chance. The bottom line is that the businesses know this population does not support it's businesses, so who on earth would want to take that chance? You can come up with all kinds of reasons to shop in Bismarck, but if more shopping dollars were left here, it would help this community, rather than support Bismarck. We used to have a Penney's, Collins Dept. Store, Men's Mart, lots of places to buy a pair of socks. BUT Mandan ran to the mall for everything, so the mall still thrives and Mandan does not. Put the blame where it belongs. I get so tired of people complaining about every move the commission makes, yet no one does their part to support our town or encourage businesses to come here. We, the citizens and the real power here, leave it up to a few and then complain. Typical Mandan. Last time your kid needed a notebook for school did you stop at Target or at Thrifty White? "

OH NO wrote on Jan 22, 2008 1:02 PM:

" To Joe B: Lee Mitzel for Mayor??? Now that would be a tragedy. "

Never Happy wrote on Jan 22, 2008 12:09 PM:

" Everyone wants progress as long as it's not in their backyard! "

Is Mandan On Life Support? wrote on Jan 22, 2008 11:52 AM:

" When this became the most popular blog on the Bismarck Tribune site (nice job, everyone!), I logged in and read the postings from the beginning to the end. It is a fascinating posting-chain. I wonder if Mayor Ken LaMont or any of the members of the Mandan City Commission or the Mandan Park Board are reading this. I would guess they probably aren't, and that is tragic since there is certainly common themes in these postings that they NEED to be aware of, since these seem to be the voice of a voting groundswell. My read on these common themes are the following: (1) we don't want noisy bars in our upscale residential neighborhoods. We zone our neighborhoods so that we can live and sleep in peace and quiet , and also so that we have places where we can drink, play pool, and dance with our friends. (2) we want our planners to have long-term foresight and vision, and that DOES NOT mean tearing down all of the historical buildings that, if restored, would create a classy heritage town center. No one is impressed by chalkboard strip malls. (3) and speaking of heritage, a mistake was made when the City Council and Park Board kicked that local guy in the butt when he tried to do the most selfless thing imagineable... taking out a loan to buy the corner Crying Hill land so that he could preserve it and donate it to the people of our city. Anyone read his web-site at www.CryingHill.org? If not, check it out. I learned more about hour town's history there in 30 minutes then I've known in my 64 years of life. Comissioners and Park Board members.... are you listening? "

mandan wrote on Jan 22, 2008 10:49 AM:

" the last sentence in the article says it all about our commission "The commission took no action on the requests." Our commission takes no action when needed. Granted this particular problem sounds a little silly because there are several lots around there zoned commercial so if the people that live there did not do their research that is not everyone elses problem. Our commission thinks they have done so much but all they have done is tear down and build awkward parking lots. For what? All the new businesses they have brought in? yeah right! We need a new commission that will take action and get rid of Ellen Huber because she is not doing the job she was hired to do. Why were these other supposed proposals deterred? and by who? or did they really even exist? There isnt really alot here so what would the competition be? Just make sure if you want peace and quiet you move to the country if not make sure you know what your area is zoned for before you buy otherwise deal with it a business has just as much right to be on the river as homes do. "

JOE B wrote on Jan 22, 2008 10:07 AM:

" Bottom Line, MANDAN IS KILLING ITSELF! People are moving out, reason. TAXES!! Yes, there are people moving in but they are leaving quicker! And the mayor, HE HAS TO GO! I think that someone who thinks every building should be torn down has to be voted out this time! LEE MITZEL FOR MAYOR!!!!!! "

Mary Sue wrote on Jan 22, 2008 9:30 AM:

" Seriously, aren't there enough bars in the community? It's amazing how our (Bismarck/Mandan) "growth" is tied to places like bars, low-paying retail stores, etc. I enjoy going out to a bar once in awhile, but I see no need for more of them. And, contrary to other opinions expressed, adding another bar is not going to help restore a dying town. "

Hiker wrote on Jan 21, 2008 9:22 PM:

" I think Crying Hill would have made a great city park. A walking trail to the top, with a fine view in every direction. Interpretive signs about the history of Crying Hill, Mandan and the area along the way. One thing about history - if it isn't preserved, it's gone. And when it's gone - it's gone. More NIMBY? Not even the preservation of our history and open space? "

Mandan Dying wrote on Jan 21, 2008 8:11 PM:

" Does anyone else think that this town is dying slowly? Gee, I have a idea stop closing all the business's in town and raising our taxes and forcing our children out of the state because there is nothing here. I think its pretty pathetic that we can spend all this time gripping about a little noise but can over look the real problem. No business's left to support the city so now resident's property taxes get raised way above and beyond what Bismarck has. I am fed up with all the talk, my house payment has gone up nearly 300.00 and I bought my 2000 home 2 yrs ago. Pretty sad when we have to pay that kind of taxes and we can not even by a pair of socks in this town without haveing to spend 3.09 a gallon in gas to go to Bismarck to get them. I AM FED UP, and I do know that I speak for everyone in this town. "

Simple wrote on Jan 21, 2008 7:31 PM:

" This whole issue can be summed up in 5 letters - NIMBY. Better to put it 'over there'; AKA someone elses backyard. "

rESPONSE TO: To: It all ties together wrote on Jan 21, 2008 7:13 PM:

" Sure, Mandan Avenue is going to be widened. That's a given. And sure, there is going to be a special assesment on all of the property along it. That too is a given. But just how much special assesment is there going to be on the piece that guy bought? Probably not much, because so much of it is hillside. If you look at his web-site on www.CryingHill.com you'l see he also wanted to donate land at the top AND at the bottom. A park is more than picnic tables and a swing set. Its green space, planted or left natural. Its a place for our children to sled down, where they can run and play. Also, where our city's name has been shining broad and clear for the past several decades. Look at the CryingHill.org web-site and you'll see that he owns (owned... maybe he sold it after the Mandan Park Board turned it down?) the land on which the letters M A N and D are located. Do we really want to lose those? I don't. All of these are thoughts.... foresight.... that our Mandan City Mayor, Council, Planning Board, and Park Board need to take into account as they lay out the city. Mandan is still a joke when it comes to planning specifically because our city government officials DON'T take these things into account as they should be considering the global picture. Instead, their thoughts seem to run one step at a time... "

Bono wrote on Jan 21, 2008 5:36 PM:

" To small minded - no not everyone that goes to a bar is a drunk. But you know that it only takes a few to be LOUD. And to act stupid in the parking lot. Don't even try to act like everyone acts respectable at a bar. Don't even. "

Not Certain wrote on Jan 21, 2008 4:25 PM:

" I am not completly certain about this but i beilieve the vacant lot that is directly across the bay from this one next to the houses is zoned commercial as well so I can't figure out how people can call this a completly residental area when there are four or more lots of substantial size zoned commercial in the direct vicinity. "

BILL G-A-R-R wrote on Jan 21, 2008 4:21 PM:

" Will this new business not be a tax revenue source for a town that is clearly going downhill? I've often said that the only business that will survive in this town is one that sells '' GOING OUT OF BUSINESS'' signs. God I miss Marvs Hardware. "

Small Minded wrote on Jan 21, 2008 4:20 PM:

" So everyone that goes to the bar is a drunk and all of us are leaving the parking lot dragracing eachother to the nearest school district looking for kids to run over. The bar is a social atmosphere where the majority of individuals go to enjoy like-minded peoples company and entertainment. Not everyone enjoys reading a book or watching the 600th re-run of seinfeld on T.V. And not everyone that frequents a bar/restaurant are drunks some people enjoy other types of entertainment. I live not in the exact area but in Lakewood and I would like another place near me to enjoy what I like doing socializing with other people where I can have a drink and get a safe ride or walk home. "

Captain Kirk wrote on Jan 21, 2008 3:12 PM:

" I don't think that noise is the issue. It's the drunken behavior, drunk driving, litter... I think that the city has to allow it, but this is on a dead end residential street. This isn't a downtown situation where there are businesses and residental housing. It's not like the Broken Oar which was there before the development. If I lived there I would enjoy the music, but the other bar/drinking related activities I could do without. I'll bet the houses on the river next to this site just had their value cut in half. "

Bono wrote on Jan 21, 2008 2:53 PM:

" According to all of you we just roll over and listen to the drunks all night. Yeah - that's noise I'd expect to hear since I live in town. WHATEVER. That makes no sense at all.

In town I expect to hear cars, trains, neighbors. NOT DRUNKS. "

Mary k wrote on Jan 21, 2008 1:12 PM:

" oh yay! another bar "

ndguy wrote on Jan 21, 2008 11:59 AM:

" Here's another tidbit you all might be interested in. According to the article below, 11 businesses contacted the city to develop in downtown Mandan. Of those, 9 initially expressed interest but only 1 has requested a permit and that is the folks who want to put a dinner theater into the old theater. ALL the others declined because they were afraid of competition. Legitimate business, afraid of competition? So, now I understand why Mandan is making such an effort to clear out business in the city. It’s to allow more development with no competition. It appears that the City Commission owns a good portion of Mandan’s previous business property and is in the process of acquiring more. Now they can pick and chose who comes into Mandan to do business. I made a resolution to be more positive in my attitude when writing about Mandan. Sorry, I just can’t when I see statements like this.

This was taken from the article dated 1/17/08: Early last year Mandan sought request for proposals for the city-owned properties. There were 11 letters of interest but only two actual proposals and one was later withdrawn, business development director Ellen Huber told the city commission at its Tuesday meeting.

The only proposal moving forward is that from Scott and Sandy McFall who will attempt to renovate the old movie theater building into a dinner theater establishment.

Huber explained that the other nine interested parties indicated they were deterred from putting together a complete proposal because of a concern over the amount of competition.
http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2008/01/17/news/local/146742.txt
"

Fact Is wrote on Jan 21, 2008 8:53 AM:

" The fact is that the owners of this land did their reasearch purchased the land got the appropriate licensing and are going to build this bar/restaurant. I live in the area also and I personally can't wait to see this place open. I am not a big party goer but I really don't beilieve it will be that big of a problem. We are in ND think about it the deck won't be open year round so that will be in use around 4 months a year. People work during the week so there will probably only be music on the weekends and will they have music every weekend did anybody ask the owner? Furthermore people go places in the summer on the weekends at least I do so I really won't be around every weekend to hear the Acid Rock. So let's say their is music every weekend. If you can't put up with a little noise 32 days a year for maybe 4 hours a night then you really need to move to the country. With those figures - deck open four months-music 2 days a week--from 9to1 you come up with 128 hours of time that their will be audible noise on that deck or 3.2 days out of the year. To me that really is not much to put up with but then again when I moved here from out of town I expected a little noise. "

To: It all ties together wrote on Jan 21, 2008 8:51 AM:

" Not sure what Crying Hill has to do with water development but a few things need to be pointed out. The land in question is a sidehill, not exactly the makings of a great park. Secondly, there are long rumored plans that division street will be extended, potentially putting the land into a special assessment district. Park district special assessments are spread out city wide. Did it ever occur to you that the Park District may have been looking out for the citizens of Mandan not punishing one guy? "

gottaluvit! wrote on Jan 20, 2008 10:54 PM:

" Let me see if I'm understanding it right here.... at Mandan city officials urging, a local guy takes out a loan and spends his own money to buy historical land so that he can donate it to the city so it is a park forever, and the Mandan city officials turn it down? AND THEN right in the middle of a residential neighborhood these same Mandan city officials let a local spoiled rich kid open up a noisy bar that plays live music late into the night, and the Mandan city officials approve it? Small-town city politics: you just gottaluvit! "

Attracted to water: wrote on Jan 20, 2008 8:13 PM:

" People are naturally attracted to water. That's why people build on the water, and that's why those who don't live on the water still want the right to enjoy it, be it fishing, boating, or being at a club near the water. That's how it is, and the water and river area is open to the public for it's use. Yes, noise comes with that, but that should be considered when buying property there. When you buy property there, you buy a small piece that you have control over, other people own other pieces and have control over them. I think it's pretty simple. "

referencegal wrote on Jan 20, 2008 5:45 PM:

" For "RE: it all ties together", if you want to read about this shameful chapter in Mandan city political history, go to the Bismarck Tribune home page, and in the Bismarck Tribune box do a search on "Crying Hill Patrick Atkinson". What you'll read there will make you want to weep with shame for our Mandan City and Park Board politicians.
"

RE: it all ties together wrote on Jan 20, 2008 3:46 PM:

" "Mandan is as Mandan wants to be." - Such a true statement. I would love to know more about that story. :-) "

Bono wrote on Jan 20, 2008 3:22 PM:

" To B: What does living on the river have to do with this story??? This is about noisy drunks yelling all night - doesn't matter if you are on the river or not. Sounds like you are a bit jealous of those people who can afford to live on the river. "

I Remember That wrote on Jan 20, 2008 2:52 PM:

" To 'it all ties together' - That was a classic example of 'no good deed goes unpunished'. And lack of vision on the part of the city. Perhaps it's not too late. "

It All Ties Together..... wrote on Jan 20, 2008 12:49 PM:

" A couple of years ago a local man took out a personal loan and, with city politicians cheering him on, bought the highly visible and historically important southeast corner of Crying Hill to...... (a) put billboards on it?....... (b) build a bar and dance lounge?....... (c) donate it to the city of Mandan so the people could have it as a park? The correct answer, of course, is C. But how did the Mandan City Commissioners and the Mandan Park Board respond? This past summer Cole Higland and the Mandan Park Board turned him down without so much as a thank-you-for-your-good-intents. A couple of months I ran into this still-stunned local man and he told me he had just received a generous offer for this birthplace-of-Mandan land from a Nevada advertising firm. In short, with our current administration and city management, it all ties together: Mandan is as Mandan wants to be. "

B wrote on Jan 20, 2008 10:11 AM:

" Too noisy living by the river? Now you know how we feel when you built too close to the water and ruined the view and scenery. You wanted water front property, you got it. "

Not us wrote on Jan 19, 2008 5:24 PM:

" To Cactus - yes there is noise everywhere - but DRUNKS screaming until 1:30 in the morning isn't typical noise. Cars, trains - that's something you can get used to. Who can get used to screaming drunks? I feel for those people next door.

And for those of you saying Mandan people hate everything - obviously you haven't read many of these blogs on other issues from Bismarck people. Complaining isn't exclusive to Mandan. It's human nature - unfortunately. "

We don't hate everything: wrote on Jan 19, 2008 12:41 PM:

" I, for one, was glad to see the dancers go because I was really tired of Mandan being known as skin city. Surely we can do better than that. I was also tired of Bismarck's finest coming over here all the time, getting drunk here and then driving home, probably meeting me on the bridge more than I knew. I would hope that the future of Mandan does not depend on it's reputation for having events here that no other city will tolerate. If the Bismarck people miss the dancers so much, maybe THEY should have them. Oops - can't. Bismarck won't allow that, but Mandan is suppose to? Just to keep Bismarck happy? I'd rather pay a few more taxes and clean up the place a bit. That went to a city wide vote and the people spoke. I am not against the proposed club, as it should offer a decent atmosphere. I don't know what that has to do with having dancers in the city. Because Mandan got rid of the dancers doesn't mean it won't progress in other directions, others cities have survived without them. For years. "

CK wrote on Jan 19, 2008 10:11 AM:

" I just came over from the National Geographic forum. Interesting dichotomy...... "

Cactus wrote on Jan 19, 2008 10:02 AM:

" To 'Not Us' - I can understand what neighborhood noise is like without needing to live in anyone else's house or neighborhood. I've lived in a half dozen neighborhoods in Bismarck alone and there was always some sort of noise in every one of them. The type of noise just varied from place ot place. It's part of living in a growing city. Personally, I don't like noise but there isn't much I can do about it. I suppose I could get all upset about it but what would that do other than raise my blood pressure? "

Mandan hates everything wrote on Jan 19, 2008 9:08 AM:

" It kind of reminds me of a several years ago when Mandan shut down the Silver Dollar. I live in Mandan, albeit not much longer. A female coworker of mine and life-long mandan resident had opinions on the impending vote. I had asked her whether or not she would vote against allowing the Silver to have dancers. She quickly expressed her opinion to get rid of them, the tree city and the bookstore. I asked her if she had ever been in any of those businesses. She hadn't. I asked her if she had ever seen any activity at the those places while driving by that offended her. She admitted, She hadn't. I asked her why she wanted them shut down then. "because they are bad places" was her reply. This woman is not an exception, she is a typical Mandan resident. Complain about property taxes, then drive out any businesses existing or proposed. Then brag to friends about the 'great deal' they got at Sams Club....... in Bismarck. The Silver still exists in Mandan, and it is as seedy as ever. Only now, no one from Bismarck has any reason to go there. Bye Mandan... I wont miss you in any way. This summer will bring lots of construction and traffic difficulties again in the city. You mandan residents have no excuse not to go OUT OF YOUR WAY to frequent whatever Mandan businesses are left after you are done making sure no new ones are established. "

race fan wrote on Jan 18, 2008 10:56 PM:

" Blasphemy, there is nothing wrong with a little rumble on a friday night. You act like they run every night . You want to talk about noise lets talk about the trains that come through town all day every day with there horns blowing nonstop........... "

Not us wrote on Jan 18, 2008 8:19 PM:

" Every one of you that are saying these residents are complaining need to go live in their homes this summer and listen to the drunks yelling and the loud music all night.

We almost bought a house there a couple of years ago - THANK GOD we didn't. This isn't going to help their property values. "

pround of my grampa wrote on Jan 18, 2008 6:23 PM:

" bill schott is my grandpa. i love him and respect his opinions.. i also love the fact that he used the words "hard acid rock".. that was sweet.
but personally, i would love to see a few new bars open up around here.
i'll take him to the bar when it opens and show him what a good time it is : ) "

Bismarcker wrote on Jan 18, 2008 4:50 PM:

" I think what Mandan is doing with their downtown is great! Old buildings coming down, others being nicely renovated, green spaces here and there. Bismarck could learn a thing or two from Mandan about how to do a revitalization. Funny thing is, and I hear this from Mandan'ers, is the biggest hurdle to growth and revitalization isn't lack of interested parties, it's the people in Mandan. You have a good thing going; keep it going! "

Blasphemy from Bismarck wrote on Jan 18, 2008 3:04 PM:

" Let it apply to that dang race track. The stinking stock cars ruin our peaceful evenings. I can't believe we can't sit out in our yards, or have our windows open without listening to that awful noise. "

Growth 4 Mandan wrote on Jan 18, 2008 1:29 PM:

" Let's face it mandan needs all the growth it can get and if the White's are willing to invest in this community give them a chance rather than trying to resrict how they are going to run THEIR buisness on THEIR land. And if what Funny thing posted is correct about Mr. Shcott being on the zoning and planning commision and having a chance to rezone the land or put restrictions on it before it was ever sold than he is making himself look pretty foolish by complaing now. What was he to lazy to do the work then? or maybe that isn't even true about him being on the commision. Just seems funny how everyone complains after the fact rather than acting when they had the chance. "

kenny wrote on Jan 18, 2008 9:15 AM:

" These complainers need to get a life. I live in Mandan and in the summer I hear music all the time from the Silver dollar street dance. BIG DEAL!!! You want complete noise reduction go buy about 30 acres and live out of town. It's good to see new buisness in mandan quit whining. I think the real problem is that you can't stand to see or hear someone else having fun? "

Zoned wrote on Jan 18, 2008 8:13 AM:

" Zoning is easy to determine. Just go to the county Register of Deeds office and ask to see the plat that is on file. It will show all of the lots, the easements and the zoning. I wouldn't consider buying a piece of property of any size without doing that and also looking at the zoning on the property in the area. 'No one told me so I thought ...' doesn't cut it when a problem arises. The only way to really control how property is used is to own it. Property zoned one way today can be rezoned tomorrow. Dealing with property zoning isn't a good time to be making guesses or assumptions about the future. 'Been there. "

To: John wrote on Jan 18, 2008 7:16 AM:

" Quite simply.................you have the best answer to this! What the heck were they thinking? Too many NIMBY attitudes in Mandan! "

BP wrote on Jan 18, 2008 5:40 AM:

" to "shut it down", I think that right now with the statements made at the city commission, you have vitually zero chance of stopping this. So there are choices to be made, deal with it and work with the new place or complain and be miserable and beat the subject to death or move.
"

Which way? wrote on Jan 18, 2008 1:48 AM:

" Residents in Mandan complain because there aren't any new businesses to help with the taxes. When one shows interest they complain because of the nature of the business or the location. The city can't fine tune every move to suit one person or a handful in the whole scheme of things. The city makes decisions for the whole of the city, and can't base all decisions on the complaints of a small percentage. People have to care about the city as well as themselves, and it all has to work together. It's called progress, and whenever this city has a chance at any there's someone complaining. Our neighborhood went into a spin years ago when they wanted to put group homes here. They put the group homes here, and I haven't seen or heard a peep out of either one. They put the entertainment park in, and the neighborhood out there has survived nicely. Maybe the people complaining should buy up all the available property out there to make sure nothing else comes in. That would solve all the problems once and for all. "

John wrote on Jan 17, 2008 11:46 PM:

" How can they be so dumb, they are surrounded by business', bars, livestock, farm fields, water treatment, highways, and a water park, did they think they were on an island of quiet suburbs only?
give me a break. "

Susan Beehler wrote on Jan 17, 2008 9:54 PM:

" For all of you talking about the zoning, the city commissioners and the planning office didn't even know what the zoning was the eveing the Whites came to the city commission meeting, it had been through a few changes and the city commission made the decision based on if the zoning was okay, because no one from the city knew for sure about the zoning, the maps in the commission room said one thing, the engineer remembered another and the Whites had been told by the seller the zoning would permit their establishment, it just goes to show sometimes how difficult it is to get correct information, I guess they finally decided it was zoned to allow the bar/dining facility. "

citizen wrote on Jan 17, 2008 5:02 PM:

" The problem here is the attitude of the commission. They know what's best for you, trust them. "

funny thing wrote on Jan 17, 2008 3:24 PM:

" The same Mr. Schott is a member of the Mandan planning and zoning board, so to say that he did not know what the property was zoned should not have even been in question if he is doing his job and understands what he is voting on. I believe that he was also on the planning and zoning board when this property was rezoned several years ago so something like this COULD be built if it ever even does get built. "

hello!!!??? wrote on Jan 17, 2008 2:45 PM:

" I think that if they can put a noise ordinance on this new establishment then they can put a noise ordinance on the bands they have at the bandshell in the park by the library in Mandan. No offense but old people complain about loud noise and everythign else in Mandan all the time so it is about time someone starts complain about that polka music they play in Mandan during the summer. It is okay for them to go to the park and enjoy that horrid music played very loud each night in Mandan but when we want to listen to our music it is out of the question. Hypocracy. "

Rush 2 judgement wrote on Jan 17, 2008 2:23 PM:

" I agree with the idea that someone should have contacted the owners of the property first to find out their plans. Is Mr. Schott worried about his style of living or is he just a media hound? He could have found out who actually owns the property contacted them expressed his concerns and if there was no compromising with them then go to the city. "

dubbles is right wrote on Jan 17, 2008 12:57 PM:

" Oh, so many nights I have been sitting in the Roundup with the door closed, minding my own business and have heard those noisy bandshell concerts in the park across the street. What's Mandan coming to? "

Everyday Guy wrote on Jan 17, 2008 12:31 PM:

" l like peace and quiet too but I don't think I have anymore rights to enjoy my property within the ordinaces and laws than the property owner next door does. Does my 'right' to peace and quiet mean the children playing in the neighborhood must be quiet so that my peace is not disturbed? Does my 'right' to peace and quiet mean my neighbor can't listen to the ball game on his radio in his backyard while he's raking leaves if I don't like it? Should I protest the building of a home next to mine as infringing on my right simply because I would prefer to have an unobstructed view in that direction from my home? What happens when my desire and my neighbor's desire on how we each use our property within the ordinances and laws are different? Whose rights trump the other's rights? Or, do we just acknowledge that in a world of 6 billion people things happen every day in life that we don't particularly care for and that there are some things that really matter and some that are really just irritations?
"

Captain Kirk wrote on Jan 17, 2008 11:13 AM:

" I lived in a Condo at this site a few years back. While I wouldn't have a problem with this development, I can see where it is a surprise to the residents in that area. I consider myself fairly diligent, but given the area, and the land available, I didn't anticipate a bar in this area and didn't check about whether one would be allowed. Many of the residence of that area are old, grumpy folks. It doesn't surprise me that they would be upset, but at the same time this was unexpected.

As far as residential/night clubs in the same area, that is usually in a downtown district with like mentioned, apartments/condos... This is not a "business district" and there are not other clubs. I don't see a downtown situation being analogous to this. "

GOOD GRIEF wrote on Jan 17, 2008 10:36 AM:

" I AGREE WITH "4 MANDAN" BUT PLEASE QUIT IMPLYING THAT ALL THE COMPLAINERS ARE "OLD PEOPLE".....I HAPPEN TO BE AN OLDER PERSON WHO STILL LOVES TO HAVE FUN AND AM LOOKING FORWARD TO MORE NEW BUSINESS' COMING TO MANDAN. EVEN US "OLD PEOPLE" GET BORED AND WANT MORE ENTERTAINMENT OPTIONS. "

shut it down wrote on Jan 17, 2008 10:10 AM:

" Regardless of what anyone says a person has the right to peace and quiet in their own home and neighborhood! As such, they also have the right (actually the RESPONSIBILITY) to control development that might adversely affect the enjoyment and property values of their homes, there is NO credible argument against that! The right of a person to his or her happiness and even security in their own home FAR outweighs that of any person’s claim to enjoyment of the river, or fun, or whatever other story that may be conjured up!
Furthermore, noise form a party or bar ie… that of loud music, people talking, laughing, and yes even hollering is far more disruptive than that of road noise or even aircraft noise. Establishing a simple decibel level isnt going to solve the problem either, if you can hear the noise your aware of it and that’s all it takes to affect one’s enjoyment of the outdoors at their own home! There’s a million other places this bar could have been located. Besides locating it on the river only encourages people to operate watercraft under the influence and there’s already enough problems with that! This needs to be shut down right now!
"

birdman wrote on Jan 17, 2008 9:58 AM:

" They make places for people that dont likes noise, its called Canada. MOVE THERE IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. "

Dead Head wrote on Jan 17, 2008 9:51 AM:

" Did I hear the Grateful Dead are playing in Mandan? Cool! "

4 MANDAN wrote on Jan 17, 2008 9:20 AM:

" you know that in major cities, most entertainmnet venues, groceries, shopping are located in residential areas. many of my out of state friends relish in the fact that they don't have to drive to a good restaraunt/bar or grocery/convenience store. in knoxville, the tn river is lined with clubs, shopping, & residential & it is booming with taxpayers that are not 65+. in kansas city, there is westport along the mississippi river. here you have clubs, coffee bars, juice bars, fashion shops, antique shops, & grocery stores all on lower levels of high end condos & apts that there is a 10 year waiting list to rent or sublet. when i say clubs i mean 30 or more in a 3 mile zone. on many nights (3 or more) a week, they close off to only foot traffic to allow people to take in the local music & other forms of entertainment in these establishments. mandan could have this if it doesn't take on the NIMBY mentality of bismarck. Hooter's has sent the capitol into tailspin of social unrest & religious fury. tell me we are not that piaous. let's take full advantage of what our missouri river area grants us. we are not all old people here in nd. "

To: hmmmm wrote on Jan 17, 2008 7:40 AM:

" Is Mandan dying? Let's see...............on the top five list for highest property taxes, serious losses in commercial development and tax base, constant battles with the school board, in litigation with citizens that don't want annexation, embarressed leadership with the decision to demolish home of veteran, no vision to maintain a beautiful historic downtown, majority of employment base works in Bismarck, increasing number of homes for sale, city commission that won't be bold, Okay I'm being negative.......need my coffe, though you got my dander up!

I guess you are right, Mandan has a lot of negative things going on, my mistake. I believe firmly in an all inclusive dialogue on details of a city. I believe in constant collaberation at all levels of community. I believe in Mandan, though it becomes more and more frustrating because of the things like this entrepenuer being so challenged by citizens that need to figure out more things before they buy property.

A few nights of music won't kill anyone.................as a neighbor, I'd take advantage of the music and do things to bring it into my quality of life. Have a BBQ that night, invite relatives, host a small business summer picnic. There are so many things that people think the worst of first.

If people would First Seek To Understand, and Then To Be Understood, the whole world would get better.

Okay, hmmmmmmmm, i've got to get off my soap box. I've complained enough. In closing, You are right, Mandan isn't dying, though it does need a lot of medicine to get it healthy again. "

BP wrote on Jan 17, 2008 6:01 AM:

" To Realist:
I think YOU should have checked your zoning ordinance BEFORE the property purchase and quit blaming others on YOU not doing your research. If you make a gamble with the zoning there is always the chance it will be used in what it whas zoned for. I think you will just have to deal with it and hope the "acid rock" will turn into the blues. "

Sleeping well wrote on Jan 16, 2008 10:34 PM:

" I use ear plugs whenever I am bothered with noise. They really work well. "

hmmm wrote on Jan 16, 2008 7:40 PM:

" To Growing Pains Happen!

While I whole heartedly agree with the rest of your post, is Mandan really dying? I'd think any city in this state save Bismarck, Fargo, and West Fargo would kill to be in Mandan's growth position. (is that why Mandan is dying? Is Minot trying to kill Mandan? :( :( :( !!! ) Such a sad sad world... "

Bravo! wrote on Jan 16, 2008 7:14 PM:

" To 'Growing Pains Happen' - Excellent note! "

Growing Pains Happen! wrote on Jan 16, 2008 5:46 PM:

" Has anyone sat across from the bar owner and expressed concerns? Asked about what nights entertainment is planned? Has anyone researched the property tax generated from the building? Has anyone thought of the staff that want to work there? Economic development isn't always ice cream with cherries, though it can be managed smartly. This establishment took a chance on Mandan. Quite kicking them! Applaud them and work with them! Mandan is dying! Quit the NIMBY (Not in my back yard) mentality and be glad someone believes that Mandan! I plan on spending my money there because they took a chance on Mandan! Best of luck to them! "

What Ever! wrote on Jan 16, 2008 4:51 PM:

" I think people just need to grow-up and quit complaining about everything. That is all you hear from Mandan.....it is called growth - DEAL WITH IT!!!! "

Used to live there wrote on Jan 16, 2008 3:24 PM:

" To Chris:

Haha! As I said, I am not trying to argue with people here, just provide the possible feelings of the residents there. I wouldn't mind an establishment within walking distance of my home either...as long as it was the "right" kind of place, with the "right" kind of customers, not just another dive. I think you get my drift. "

chris wrote on Jan 16, 2008 3:16 PM:

" to: Used to live there

If a bar was put up at the north end of town where you said, i would save a ton of money for cabs!!! Bring it on, I'd love it. "

Dakota wrote on Jan 16, 2008 2:49 PM:

" As mentioned before from other people, shut down the race track if we want quiet. I live by Ft. Lincoln school and have to close my windows because of the noise. They should at least start at eariler times. I shouldn't be giving you people any ideas..l.o.l.
I can deal with the noise, just making a point. Just like they banned the erupting volcano at Raging rivers. I never heard that from my house!
You people that are always complaining should put your efforts into bringing more businesses to Mandan. "

Mandan: Appalachia on the Missouri wrote on Jan 16, 2008 2:28 PM:

" There is a reason that I and several of my friends moved away from Mandan just as soon as we could....... we just couldn't understand the logic behind many of the decisions taken by the Mandan City Commissioners and the Mandan Park Board. Since we still have good memories, though, when we get together we always bring one another up to date on Mandan, a place we affectionately call Appalachia on the Missouri. In a way, its refreshing to see that this "nothing moves if there isn't a little grease happening" mentality among the Mandan City Commissioners and the Mandan Park Board. In a far bigger way, though, its quite sad that nothing has changed over these years. "

Used to live there wrote on Jan 16, 2008 2:09 PM:

" It seems like many of you haven't seen the street where the establishment would be located. It is not your typical commercial area. The lot zoned for this looks like an extension of the neighbor's yard, not a place where a business would go. I am all for progress, and I am not overtly protesting this event, either, but it just amazes me how many people get so angry with the comments here. "It's life...just move...quit whining..." I'm sure if a bar was put into the middle of the residential north end of Bismarck (Hackberry, Aspen, etc. or any residential area for that matter) the residents would feel just as the people of River Place do. "

Ha wrote on Jan 16, 2008 1:42 PM:

" Just wait till the smoking ban in North Dakota gets voted. The noise that people will hear just from the people outside. The people complaining will only be more PO'ed. Everyone just needs to grow up and deal with it. "

mandan resident wrote on Jan 16, 2008 1:41 PM:

" Let's think about it people. Mandan already has a ton of parking lots and now a new business wants to open up and we are now going to tie their hands with no bands/DJS because of it being to loud. The neighbors of this business should move or pay more taxes to make up for loss tax revenue the city would get should the business fail.Good luck to the new business and have some bands and let the patrons enjoy the place!!!!!!! "

birdman wrote on Jan 16, 2008 1:19 PM:

" what kind of hearing aid does William schott have? I need to get my father one of those! "

birdman wrote on Jan 16, 2008 1:16 PM:

" To jakewydle: IM CALLING YOUR BLUFF, YOUR NEIGHBOR DOESNT HAVE THAT EXSPENSIVE OF A CAR STEREO! "

Here's a Thought wrote on Jan 16, 2008 1:11 PM:

" Make it an official bedroom community. No businesses, no entertainment, no parks, maybe even no schools...Just houses & streets "

B in M wrote on Jan 16, 2008 12:53 PM:

" To Quit Whinning:
Those races til midnight do tick me off.

I'll also note that the city does a poor job of advertising the public meetings that affect you. I went to a zoning meeting once and a majority of them didn't even show up. They then rescheduled the meeting when I was out of town. The builder, Koch, lied about what he was planning to build and the neighbors and I didn't protest. Big mistake. "

GOOD GRIEF wrote on Jan 16, 2008 12:52 PM:

" I LOVE ND!!!! Believe it or not it is not only 12 - 35 year olds that like to go out....I am over 50 years old and love to go dancing. We need more in this town than Country Western bars, some people like a little rock. We wonder why people leave the area....it's because there is nothing to do here. Everyone is concerned about their sleep being disturbed during the night but what about people who work the night shift and their neighbors are out mowing and using other tools that are extremely loud early in the morning, nobody seems to care about that. "

jeffrey weidlandt wrote on Jan 16, 2008 12:20 PM:

" Hey Al Gee, I think you have your genre's mixed up. Acid rock is more like Grateful Dead and Jefferson Airplane. By the time Metal Church and Sepultura came around it was more like cocaine rock!!

Just wait, next the Lakewood people will be complaining about the sewage lagoon. "

JoB wrote on Jan 16, 2008 11:57 AM:

" ROCK ON I say, I can't wait to get my band into a new bar that rocks. And as far as a noise ordinance similar to that used by Bismarck, somebody must of forgot that We can still hear those trains and loud exhaust from cars. Get your power amps out and turn them up to 11 and ROCK OUT, and by the way my ears are 54 yrs. old,,,
peace out.... "

JakeEWylde wrote on Jan 16, 2008 11:48 AM:

" I live out by Lincoln School and I can hear the car races at a pretty good volume at all hours of the night. Our teenage neighbor also rides his motocross cycle up and down the street after 10 pm. The college kid next to me has a $15,000 dollar car stereo he likes to show off at 2 am in the morning. Let our young adults be young adults, we've all been there. What have we become, a retirement community......... "

No Kidding wrote on Jan 16, 2008 11:34 AM:

" I agree with those of you who wrote that we are our own worst enemy. Give it a rest already. Mandan does not have all that many NEW businesses that want to build or move here. Can we figure it out and understand why? It is because of commission meetings like this one last nite. Instead of not allowing the bar/restaurant establishment, lets move the Centre that is being remodeled across from Dans Super Valu right next to a trailer park and apartment complexes so we do not have to worry about sex offenders.... etc....

Do you see the point.? I doubt it - but you just might. Let the bar/restaurant establishment in, take out the sex offender unit. Otherwise, sex offenders and the like could/should move into their neighborhoods also.... Which one is worse? HMMMMMM "

Harumph! wrote on Jan 16, 2008 10:46 AM:

" It's not the 'rapscaleons' that bother me. It's those darn scallywags! "

suggestion wrote on Jan 16, 2008 10:33 AM:

" Maybe Bis-Man can simply ban anyone between the ages of 21 and 35 from living within 15 miles of our fair community? That should get rid of most late night noise issues.

Now I realise the above may be illegal but I do have a backup plan: Suppose we just ban anything remotly entertaining, community wide? That should drive the dirty rapscaleons away. "

Not Nostrodamus wrote on Jan 16, 2008 9:51 AM:

" Let's see - there's a busy traffic bridge to the north, an interstate highway connection and city bypass to the west and south, a motor sports dealership to the south, a go cart, water slide and amusement park across the highway, and people are surprised there's some noise? Bismarck/Mandan is changing and noise is part of it. I don't like noise either but I don't expect I won't have to put up with some. "

That's Life! wrote on Jan 16, 2008 9:39 AM:

" Every place a person can live has a negative or two. Almost every place has some sort of noise going on that we don't like. Seems like some people think they should be able to control their entire environment and what everyone else around them does. Maybe if you own 1,000 acres and can build your house in the middle you don't have to listen to anyone elses noise. Maybe. "

Zoning Comments wrote on Jan 16, 2008 9:38 AM:

" If an area is zoned "light industrial" and the business being proposed fits into that zoning, no hearings have to take place for approval. Are these residents trying to say they didn't know what type of zoning they were living in? I find that hard to believe. If you don't want to live in an area where "light industrial" businesses are allowed, then don't move there. If you do move there, you will end up having to live with the businesses that are there and that come later. Even if the zoning is changed now, the existing businesses will be "grandfathered" in and allowed to stay. The Residents should have made the zoning changes long before this issue came up - then - this type of business would not have been allowed without a public hearing. Learn your zoning people - research before you buy - it's just plain common sense. "

Tim from Bismarck wrote on Jan 16, 2008 9:37 AM:

" Hard Acid Rock? That brings back some old memories! Put up the restr. and bar and require it can only play the POLKA HIT PARADE! "

Casey wrote on Jan 16, 2008 9:12 AM:

" instead of spending $250k + for a house in the fancy part of mandan, why not spend $150k-200k on a house, out it out of town. put it up on $50k worth of land. you can have all the peace and quite you want then. walk around naked in your front yard...... DO WHATEVER YOU WANT. try living in a large city. the noise from a bar a quarter of a mile away will be your last worry......... "

Used to live there wrote on Jan 16, 2008 8:58 AM:

" I can understand the concern of the residents of this area. My wife and I rented there when we first were married. It is a quiet little area, accessed by a road that is only used by the residents of River Place addition. It's not a matter of "growing up," it's a matter of people worried about the aesthetic qualities of their homes. There are many people there of various ages, from young families to older folks. It doesn't always seem equitable that one establishment can come in and change what has always been the standard of living in a neighborhood. Also, I love the attitude that many posters have on these issues..."Just move!" How ridiculous! As if relocating your family is as easy as snapping your fingers! "

Okfed Oberhausenvold III wrote on Jan 16, 2008 8:56 AM:

" It seems to me that anytime anything new and different comes into the area that the residents have to protest. Is everyone that scared of a little change? The residents obviously got over the water park. I really don't see that big of a difference in noise from boats on the water, and cars on the expressway. What next? A ban on all boating from the river? "

CAT wrote on Jan 16, 2008 8:42 AM:

" I lived in the Riverplace apartments for a few months. During the summer months, with windows open, the expressway traffic was bad. It was not a 'quiet' place to live. We all want Mandan to succeed and grow but not at the expense of giving up our own personal comfort zone. We just want to keep paying higher taxes and keep out any possible help..................We are our own worst enemy!! "

Quit whinning wrote on Jan 16, 2008 8:38 AM:

" I live in Mandan and I think these people need to let it go. Have they listened to the trains lately? Everynight, even in the winter with all the windows closed I can hear the trains and I live in north Mandan. Can we ban the trains? I don't think so. It is a fact of life. I would rather hear music one night a week than the trains 7 nights a week. Or what about the races every Friday in the summer. They sometimes go until midnight. Deal with it! "

Susan Beehler wrote on Jan 16, 2008 8:31 AM:

" This is a legimate complaint. Across at Southport there was noise issues also with Pier 1. A proposed ordinance was given to the commissioners by these homeowners. The city commission just seems so hard to work with when citizens come to them with concerns. They seem to fail to acknowledge and validate the concern. I am tired of hearing of the city does not have the staff to do their jobs or to enforce an ordinance since 2001 the city budget has more than doubled, yet it seems as residents we have less services and a commission very slow to respond to citizen concerns. Yet the city wants to add more land mass through a forced north annexation, what about this causing more burden on their already "understaffed" city staff as Helbling states. If the city is not willing to address the concerns of citizens in the city now why bring in more residents. Seems like a excuse to me. "

Tired of the noise wrote on Jan 16, 2008 8:29 AM:

" This is a typical problem in Mandan, I lived there for 14 years and the street I live gets louder every year, the police have no interest in enforcing any type of noise ordinance, generally when you call in the dispatcher is more concerned with getting your life history then the issue you report. As for Grow Up Mandan, I believe the people in that neighborhood would just like to be able to sleep at night, there seems to be a part of our population in Mandan that do not start moving around until 1:00 am in the morning and apparently the rest of us either need to put up with the noise or leave town, what a great concept! "

Suggesting wrote on Jan 16, 2008 8:25 AM:

" Why don't all the people posting these negative comments take into consideration that if you were in the shoes of people living in the concerned residential area you might think diffeently. Please have some compassion towards others who have legitimate reasons. "

Can't Win 'em All wrote on Jan 16, 2008 8:25 AM:

" I would never buy a piece of property, especially for my home, without a thorough search of what the zoning was in the neighborhood. I suspect people knew about the zoning but thought they could stop anything they didn't like. That's a risky play. "

Kevin wrote on Jan 16, 2008 8:24 AM:

" Ahh, the answers. I was always wondering why there is so little restaurant/commercial property along the river: Meriwether's, The Pier, and The Broken Oar. I mean we have the best river in the state, and there are no riverfront entertainment venues. Now reading this article, I begin to slightly understand why such efforts are thwarted. "

Bummer wrote on Jan 16, 2008 8:16 AM:

" It's a shame that people have to bicker about the dumbest of things. Hard acid rock. He, he. At the age group this person is, he should be thankful he has entertainment when he gets up to take his midnight pee. If it's too loud, you're too old. Just turn off your hearing aid at night.

Seriously, I live about 1 1/4 miles north of the railroad on the east side of Bismarck and I can hear the train go by in the middle of the night. Should I get a petition together to move the train tracks that have been there for decades?
I think not. How about the people that live in the Lakewood Subdivisions that have to put up with the stink of Mandan's sewage treatment plant or Kist Livestock? Doesn't this just boil down to location, location, location? People should think twice about buying a home so close to industrial areas. "

broken oar wrote on Jan 16, 2008 8:15 AM:

" What people don't remember is the Broken Oar bar was at its location before any homes were there. When you buy a home in Lakewood or Marina Bay you knew that there was going to be noise from the bar. The Broken Oar is grandfathered in. "

Realist wrote on Jan 16, 2008 7:58 AM:

" The first three poster are the type of people who have become a problem in society today. They are the type that have absolutely no concern for other people and instead care only about their own selfish self-centered needs. They lack empathy and understanding of others. Regardlous of the population, your location, or age; we all have a right to peace and quiet. It's when others, such as the first three posters who selfishly care nothing about anyone else and only themselves, do things to cause harm to the majority, that we have problems. The first ones to offend here was the city commission in allowing a bar/night club in a residential area. To use the excuse that it was zoned for that purpose doesn't cut it. In this case, the city commission should have used those bloated things on their shoulders to make an exception and disallow a bar in a residential area. The city commission should have seen this coming. The vast majority of people want to sleep without hearing noise from a local bar/nightclub booming out music to early hours of the morning. "

Just Me wrote on Jan 16, 2008 7:23 AM:

" Here we go again - it is a sad day when everything we do is control. If people don't like the sights and SOUNDS of the city - then LEAVE! Please stop trying to run everyone's life for them. "

dubbles wrote on Jan 16, 2008 7:11 AM:

" Hmmm.... I have yet to come across a very very quiet city. In the city one can expect a reasonable amount of sound, if you cant, you move outta town. What next, the silver dollar wont be able to have their outdoor concerts in the summer, because by golly, thats too loud. While we are at it, lets not stop there, the mandan band shell at BN park on main street, during the summer concerts there one could argue that that too is too dang loud!. Get a life people! "

Al Gee wrote on Jan 16, 2008 6:18 AM:

" Hard Acid Rock! Hahahahaha Believe me, if they played that kind of garbage you wouldn't have to worry about the noise because nobody would be there. I don't think there are too many fans around that listen to Metal Church or Sepultra anymore except for maybe the kids that beat you up on the way home from school. "

harpua wrote on Jan 16, 2008 6:04 AM:

" Acid Rock... YESSS. "

kat wrote on Jan 16, 2008 6:01 AM:

" Poor little rich people! If You don't like noise don't move to a neighborhood that is zoned for businesses. I don't think everyones tax dollar should be spend "protecting" their precious sleep. "

BP wrote on Jan 16, 2008 5:45 AM:

" "Hard acid rock"???? I haven't heard that phrase in years! Pretty much tells you what age group this person belongs too. "

grow up Mandan wrote on Jan 16, 2008 5:37 AM:

" IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE NOISE MOVE OUT INTO THE COUNTRY. I AM SURE THAT YOU WILL FIND SOMETHING NEW TO COMPLAIN ABOUT, LIKE SOMEBODIES COWS ARE MOOING TO LOUD. COME ON "

Pathetic ND wrote on Jan 16, 2008 4:26 AM:

" All this wide open space, and the people congregate in a small area, just so they can squabble over who gets to control the other party. EVERYBODY DOGPILE !!! And welcome to North Dakota. "

Post Your Own Comment

All online comments are limited to 350 words total.
Comments are reviewed for taste, tone and language before posting.
Some comments may be used in the Tribune's print edition.
We value and respect your privacy, but The Bismarck Tribune might
disclose certain information to governmental entities if served with subpoena.